General Petraeus Reveals The Two Key Factors In Battle Of Attrition Between Ukraine And Russia

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Russia is struggling troop losses and has been unable to take Ukraine’s capital metropolis of Kyiv as of but, however the Russians are increasing their assaults. And retired Basic and former CIA Director David Petraeus is right here to speak in regards to the newest on the bottom. So, Basic, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us. Let’s begin with this map of Ukraine, as a result of, proper now, we all know the Russians are engaged on 4 main fronts. There’s Kyiv. There’s Kharkiv. There’s, clearly, the Donbass area, the separatist areas, after which, in fact, Crimea. However the stale — it does appear as if proper now we’re listening to that it’s one thing of a stalemate. What goes fallacious for the Russians proper now?

GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS (RET.), FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Properly, an terrible lot, really. It’s a stalemate. However we should always word it’s a bloody stalemate.

TAPPER: Proper.

PETRAEUS: This isn’t a cease-fire. And in addition, arguably, it’s a battle of attrition. It’s a stalemate on the battlefield, once more, with numerous continued injury on each side, numerous destruction, particularly from the Russians. However there’s a battle of attrition, in a way, between the need in Kyiv and the nation after which between that in Moscow, and particularly within the Kremlin, as their financial system, their monetary system and all the remainder of that’s simply collapsing. However what you see, up right here, that is the principle effort. We will are available in and present that in a second.

TAPPER: You need to go to…

PETRAEUS: Certain.

TAPPER: You need to take a look at Kyiv?

PETRAEUS: Let’s do this, sure.

TAPPER: So right here’s Kyiv.

PETRAEUS: Sure.

TAPPER: And so, proper now, they appear to have been — they haven’t been capable of — right here’s Kyiv proper now.

PETRAEUS: Sure.

TAPPER: And so they haven’t been capable of get in there.

PETRAEUS: No, you’ve gotten actually seen no large change to those strains for about two weeks. The Ukrainians have really been counterattacking round in right here, however very native counterattacks. Right here, the Russians are literally digging in. They’re really digging holes for his or her tanks as a result of they’ve taken such losses. And so they’re actually not fairly inside artillery vary of the middle of town. They’ve rockets, missiles, bombs, and all the pieces else that we now have seen. And so they’re rubbling these little villages which are on the surface. Have in mind, that is 320 sq. miles, in contrast with New York Metropolis, all of which is 300 miles in whole. So, once more, just about a stalemate right here, however, once more, very a lot a bloody one. But when we go in now — let’s go all the way down to the south.

TAPPER: So let’s take a look at this hall…

PETRAEUS: Sure.

TAPPER: … as a result of that is vital.

PETRAEUS: It’s.

TAPPER: You — we now have Russian troops simply completely pummeling Mariupol. We have now heard simply these horrible tales about residents being taken out into Russian camps of types…

PETRAEUS: Sure.

TAPPER: … and that metropolis simply being devastated.

However Russia has reportedly established a land hall between the Donbass area…

PETRAEUS: Sure. Sure.

TAPPER: … which is right here, and Crimea…

PETRAEUS: Sure.

TAPPER: … which they seized in 2014.

PETRAEUS: Sure.

TAPPER: So…

(CROSSTALK)

PETRAEUS: Which they’ve wished for a very long time.

TAPPER: That is vital.

PETRAEUS: It extends all the best way throughout right here. It is vitally vital.

Mariupol has not but fallen. It’s out of meals, gas, water, all the pieces apart from coronary heart. They’re nonetheless preventing very onerous. That is the primary place the place the Russians are having to do no-kidding city preventing, having to go constructing to constructing. Each single room must be cleared in this type of endeavor.

And so they’re discovering out that it is vitally soldier-intensive, and it simply eats away on the reserves and forces that you’ve got.

TAPPER: And who’re they — are they preventing the Ukrainian navy or the Ukrainian resistance, or each?

PETRAEUS: It’s all the above.

Understand that — , all people desires to say, properly, the Russians have, I don’t know, 200,000, and the Ukrainians have 100,000. It’s not so. The Ukrainians have 100,000, plus each different grownup, nearly, within the nation, all of whom are keen to take up arms or assist not directly, even when it’s simply jam radio alerts or conduct vlogging.

They name Russians in Russia and say, are you aware how poorly that is going for you?

So, all people’s engaged.

However the issue right here is, once more, that they’re actually ravenous. It is a siege. That’s what the Russians are doing right here. And, once more, how lengthy they’ll maintain out — and that’s crucial, as a result of as soon as — in the event that they do give up, these forces will likely be freed to return up.

And if you wish to return to the Ukraine map total, what that may do is free forces to go up this manner. Finally, you could possibly really encompass numerous Ukrainian forces which are in right here. So, you…

TAPPER: So the importance of getting this half proper right here, which is what we’re speaking about — right here’s Mariupol. Right here’s Crimea.

PETRAEUS: Sure.

TAPPER: Connecting Crimea, which they seized in 2014…

PETRAEUS: Sure. Sure.

TAPPER: … with the Donbass is — what, they’ll consolidate forces and go that approach?

PETRAEUS: Properly, that — it’s that on the battlefield now. It’s additionally that you’ve got a land line of communication between primarily Russia and Crimea that doesn’t require the bridge right here within the…

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Proper. They have this…

(CROSSTALK)

PETRAEUS: That’s proper.

TAPPER: Let’s return to the hall right here, which is simply this — that is what that they had beforehand.

PETRAEUS: That’s proper.

TAPPER: All that they had was this teeny little bridge, which you’ll’t actually get all the pieces you want when you’re within the Russian navy throughout this bridge.

PETRAEUS: That’s proper.

TAPPER: It’s simply not large enough, proper?

PETRAEUS: That’s proper. That’s proper. That’s proper.

Now, let’s…

TAPPER: What’s the significance — can I simply ask you, what’s the importance of Odessa?

PETRAEUS: Large.

TAPPER: Why do they need Odessa so dangerous?

PETRAEUS: Odessa is the one greatest port. In the event that they take Mariupol up right here, that’s the final large port.

It’s immediately on the Black Sea. It doesn’t need to undergo the Strait of Azov and so forth, which may be blocked by the Russians. It’s the lifeline for all of Ukraine with regards to what’s coming in.

And so what they’ve tried to do is go right here. They’ve tried to get by Mykolaiv, that are two key bridges. They’re already rigged for demolition in the event that they need to. And so they have simply — once more, it’s a stalemate. They haven’t completed a lot. They’ve gone a bit north to attempt to get round a river that’s up right here.

In the end, they need to make investments Odessa in a siege. And there’s additionally ships standing off right here offshore that may conduct an amphibious touchdown. To date, that’s all primarily on maintain.

TAPPER: So, I need to simply discuss briefly about this, as a result of…

PETRAEUS: Sure.

TAPPER: … the Ukrainians say they’ve killed 5 Russian generals in Ukraine. CNN has not independently confirmed that. We additionally hear {that a} high USA common says Russian troopers don’t seem like notably motivated.

I solely recall the U.S. — and I may be fallacious about this, so I apologize if I’m. I can solely recall one American common being killed in Afghanistan in your entire battle.

And that was a green-on-blue insider assault, proper?

PETRAEUS: I feel that’s proper. I must…

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: It’s not widespread to kill a common. PETRAEUS: It’s very, very — very, very unusual. That is within the first three weeks. And these are fairly senior generals.

The underside line is that their command-and-control has damaged down. Their communications have been jammed by the Ukrainians. Their safe comms didn’t work. They needed to go to single channel. That’s jammable. And that’s precisely what the Ukrainians have been doing to that.

They use cell telephones. The Ukrainians blocked the prefix for Russia. In order that didn’t work. Then they took down 3G. They’re actually stealing cell telephones from Ukrainian civilians to speak amongst one another. So, what occurs?

The column will get stopped. An impatient common is sitting again there in his armored or no matter automobile. He goes ahead to seek out out what’s happening as a result of there’s no initiative. Once more, there’s no noncommissioned officer corps. There’s no sense of initiative at junior ranges.

They wait to be instructed what to do. Will get up there. And the Ukrainians have very, superb snipers, and so they have simply been choosing them off left and proper. And not less than 4 of those 5 are completely confirmed. And I feel the fifth, we are going to hear immediately.

TAPPER: Are these just like the type of guys you’ve gotten heard of?

PETRAEUS: A few of them are.

TAPPER: Sure.

PETRAEUS: Sure, sure, sure, sure. A few of them are, particularly the three- star common proper there, sure.

TAPPER: All proper, David Petraeus, thanks a lot.

PETRAEUS: All the time a pleasure.